Re: SAGE, certification, and you

[Richard Chycoski <richard@wizard.ucs.sfu.ca>]

> From: Rea Simpson <simpson6@llnl.gov>
>
> IMHO, getting a degree tells you a bit more.  It says the person was
> dedicated enough to complete it.  It shows they were willing to take
> courses that might not be directly applicable to what they wanted to
> do in the future, but they took them because they were required.
>
> Being able to stick it out and get the degree takes some qualities
> that are desirable in a good employee.  But again, it doesn't guarantee
> anything.  And not having the degree doesn't mean you don't have
> these qualities.  These are just pieces of the whole picture.
>
> Everything equal between 2 candidates, I'd take the one with the
> degree.
>
> Maybe it's an urban legend, but there's that story about the study
> that showed the only only difference they could find between
> college grads and non-college grads, was that the grads could hold
> their finger in a candle flame longer.  :-)
>
> Rea

Isn't that:

Grads WOULD hold their finger in a candle flame longer? (:-)

There is a difference between "education" and "training" that has been a stickler in the  
university community forever.

I learned virtually all of my practical knowledge about systems administration "on the job" from  
some very talented individuals. I could not have obtained this kind of training and knowledge from  
any courses taught at the university where I work, which does have a Computing Science department  
that is considered among the best in Canada.

This doesn't mean that a degree is not useful (I don't have one, by the way, I have a Diploma of  
Electronics Technology from a two-year institution, but then that was completed more than 20 years  
ago), just that I can't see any widespread, capable teaching of sysadmin *skills* being on the  
curriculum in the near future.

Sysadmins need *skills* training as well as an education. I would rather see a computing science  
grad spend a year or two within a competent organisation being trained in systems administration  
than a "Sysadmin" degree, since most of the skills that are needed are too much of a hands-on,  
continuously changing nature to be taught in the classroom.

It's like the difference between climate and weather:

Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get. Computing science teaches how things are  
supposed to work, on the job (and sometimes during skills-based training) you learn how to  
actually make things work.

In fact, people with a good non-computing education may be preferable to a some of those with  
computing science degrees. Some of the best sysadmins and systems programmers that I have known  
had majors in math, physics, and even history! (And several had no degrees at all...) One of the  
people that I learned most from did not work at obtaining a degree until he had been my boss for  
almost 8 years.

Given a choice between two candidates, one who shows enthusiasm, has good communication and  
people skills, and a reliable track record, and another candidate with a degree, guess who I would  
choose?

---
- Richard Chycoski
  Senior Systems Consultant
  Simon Fraser University
  Academic Computing Services
  richard@sfu.ca